Preliminary Discussion on A Survey on Male Attitudes About Relationships

I posted the following comment on my Facebook page on May 13, 2014:

”I’m going to create a survey on SurveyMonkey.com which will attempt to gain an insight into male attitudes toward relationships. Conversations with female friends indicate that there seems to be a disconnect between what women expect in a relationship and what men are willing to give. Attitudes toward gender roles seem to be changing in modern society, and old traditions such as holding a door open for a woman or taking the trash out being the man’s job have become issues that make or break a marriage or partnership. Who cooks? Should both work? Should women stay home and take care of the baby, despite a potential loss of a second income? If both are working, who cleans the house? Who washes the dishes? How much should a man contribute to the home workload? If only the man works, how much of his income above and beyond household expenses does the wife deserve for the workload she bears at home?

“Anyone can comment, but I’m looking for some comments from women especially on the type of questions that should be asked, because it is from women that I hear the most complaints.”

What follows is a day-long exchange of views on the subject, as well as an occasional digression.  The discussion is interesting because it identifies some diverse attitudes about the subject and the challenge ahead in attempting to frame the proper questions. 

 

Redhwan Ahmed Al-Naggar Can I join you in this study and collect data from Malaysia

Yesterday at 12:37am · Unlike · 2

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Paul Barrow Can you explain how you would “join”?

Yesterday at 12:39am · Like

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Redhwan Ahmed Al-Naggar I will share the links to all university students and university staff in Malaysia
And we can publish this data in international journal for the people to know what is the outcome of this study

Yesterday at 12:42am · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow Sounds very interesting. I’ll be happy to cooperate any way that I can.

Yesterday at 12:45am · Like

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Redhwan Ahmed Al-Naggar Thanks and we keep in touch

Yesterday at 12:46am · Unlike · 1

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Paul Barrow I have some further questions. I believe that men, and many women too, fall down as parents, primarily out of ignorance of a child’s needs, but also because we live in an all-about-me world in which the pursuit of power (money) and pleasure (watching NFL games, sex, getting high) takes precedence over everything else, including the wife’s needs. So what kinds of questions should be asked to bring focus to this problem?

Yesterday at 7:26am · Like

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Linda Calder Wow, deep stuff, Paul Barrow! We (women) live in a misogynist society that permeates every aspect of male/female relationships. The entire structure wound have to be completely overhauled. Is it possible to iron these issues out one on one within the confines of individual relationships? Many of us are attempting it. The task is monumental and an ongoing evolution. I would like to contribute more to your project, perhaps as a note here.

Yesterday at 7:29am · Like · 2

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Paul Barrow I definitely agree with you, and I also think that the problem goes much deeper. What is a misogynist? A person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women. It’s a chicken-egg problem in determining which comes first, because I think that women hate or are prejudiced against men equally as much. They feed on each other’s hatred for their own. If I don’t like you, it’s going to become obvious, and you’re not going to like me because of it.

Yesterday at 7:35am · Like

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William Harper You know what, Mr. Barrow. I met your son at MTSU years ago, and I have not seen or talked to him in a long time. I am grateful, however, very grateful to have met him and become your Facebook friend. You are DA MAN!

Yesterday at 7:37am · Unlike · 1

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Linda Calder Paul, that is a bit like saying black people don’t like whites because they don’t like them. Hatred/contempt/whore-Madonna prejudice came FIRST, just as mistreatment of other minorities did. Women’s behavior towards men, just as other minorities toward their oppressors, is REACTIONARY.

Yesterday at 7:42am · Edited · Unlike · 5

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Paul Barrow Wow! That’s immensely kind of you to say that, William . My son has moved to Denver and is into his music. He just texted me a link last night to his latest song.

Yesterday at 7:42am · Like

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Linda Calder SISTERS, good morning! Can I get a witness???

Yesterday at 7:43am · Unlike · 4

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Paul Barrow I completely agree with you, Linda. I was going to comment further when William got my attention.

Yesterday at 7:44am · Like · 2

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Paul Barrow However, the problem is bigger than that, and that’s why I also say that it is self perpetuating.

Yesterday at 7:45am · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow Misogyny has become an institution, through cultural norms, and as a consequence, hatred for men has also.

Yesterday at 7:48am · Like

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Linda Calder Yes, consequence due to years of oppressing women. BUT, I know many men who are aware of the problem and are taking steps to be part of the solution.

Yesterday at 7:52am · Unlike · 1

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Paul Barrow More than 50% of moms are single moms. The dads aren’t there. We can go into that, but the point is that moms who raise children without dads are going to explain to their children why there’s no dad in the rudest terms, and engender hatred in them for men in general, because the problems men have are indeed very generalized and permeate society.

Yesterday at 7:52am · Like · 1

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Linda Calder I raised both of my sons alone and did my best to engender respect for their father because I knew that would be best for THEM despite any personal feelings. Be careful of making generalizations, Paul.

Yesterday at 7:56am · Unlike · 5

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Linda Ballard Huge can of worms in this day and age when genders and rolls are skewed 

Yesterday at 7:57am · Unlike · 2

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Paul Barrow I suspect you are in a minority, Linda, but that can also be one of the issues addressed through questions.

Yesterday at 7:57am · Like

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Paul Barrow I think you raise a good question, Linda. I really wonder if they are skewed or just withdrawn, because the loudest voice in the room is skewing them. So many of the conservative traditions respected in relationships often reveal themselves when you dig past the surface of a lot of social theatre.

Yesterday at 8:03am · Like

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Linda Calder Which Linda is in a minority, Paul?

Yesterday at 8:09am · Like

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Paul Barrow You, Linda Calder. Sorry, I’m getting confused too.

Yesterday at 8:10am · Like

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Linda Calder I HIGHLY DOUBT promoting respect for fathers as a single mother makes me a minority!
Good luck with your research.

Yesterday at 8:12am · Like · 2

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Paul Barrow I appreciate your opinion, Linda Calder. That’s right to the point of all this. Don’t walk away. Surprise me. Show me the truth.

Yesterday at 8:15am · Like

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Paul Barrow In fact, Linda Calder, I would suggest that if you believe that most men are misogynistic, full of ” Hatred/contempt/whore-Madonna prejudice” , you’ve already proven my point. Haven’t you shared that with your children? Or am I mistaken in thinking that this is a generalization you do make about men?

Yesterday at 8:24am · Like

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HEidi PEterson Don’t forget to mention the lack of ( affordable )housing forces woman and families to live accept what ever conditions the one who houses them puts them in… meaning men don’t have to commit when they have woman doing everything they would get from marriage already. Poor families are places in a poor position of bargaining power and although the society knows the dangers they don’t provide housing for most families, in times of need which are then passed around and subject to possible abuse.

Yesterday at 8:32am · Edited · Unlike · 3

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Linda Calder Paul, I said our society subscribes to that attitude. Absolutely. I don’t hate men, I hate the system that promotes such nonsense. My children are both male and very feminist. As a man, you were born into a system of oppressors. It is possible to override this belief system, but surely difficult.
You have crossed a boundary with me by commenting on what I have or have not taught my children. I am withdrawing from this conversation. Choose to see that as a victory if you so desire.

Yesterday at 8:34am · Edited · Unlike · 2

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Paul Barrow Well, I apologize for offending you. I was making points in the broadest terms about single moms, and I did generalize. Nothing was intended to target you. I think that explaining to me that you differ in your approach was good, and I appreciate that. This is a difficult subject, obviously, and I’m sorry if personal feelings get entangled.

Yesterday at 8:40am · Like

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Paul Barrow Yes, HEidi PEterson, economic conditions contribute enormously to this problem. I think the job market has become almost schizophrenic between general labor jobs and skilled and professional jobs. It’s either $10 bucks an hour or $100 bucks an hour, or better. Everything else in between has been shipped overseas.

Yesterday at 8:47am · Like

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Marcia Everett I bet you would be surprised to find out that MOST women DO NOT put the father down when he is out of the picture. That he has a way of putting himself down all by himself. Why don’t you just ask the men what they like or what they expect to happen in order for them to be being considered treated fairly. And then tell them SO DO WE.

Yesterday at 8:49am · Unlike · 3

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Marcia Everett This is a similar conversation that I had as a non-believer. Is my stating that Belief causes a danger to my life, the same as attacking believers? Stating that misogyny exists does not mean there is hatred toward men. Also our consumer culture has affected us all negatively. We look at each other as objects to be bought and sold, rather than as living things to be experienced. And while I just said that oh so intellectually, I too am infected.

Yesterday at 9:00am · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow Marcia Everett, I’m interested in hearing more. Its possible that I’m making an unfair assumption. But when we are told that male oppression and misogyny are so prevalent, the logical conclusion is that this has contributed greatly toward divorce and single motherhood. Frankly, I think that the war between the sexes is highly exaggerated, when you get down to the true feelings people have. The war is in some degree a facade,

Yesterday at 9:00am · Like

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Marcia Everett I think the war is about being heard. Everyone’s story is different, yet the same. The hardest part is being able to tell your story without someone getting defensive. It is very hard for people to hear I’ve been doing XYZ to you and I didn’t know it, didn’t want to know it, and now that I do know it I don’t want to fix it because that takes effort.

Yesterday at 9:05am · Unlike · 1

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Paul Barrow

Yesterday at 9:06am · Like

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Marcia Everett I’m particularly speaking this way because I’m having three different issues at once. I am having this male female debate, I’m having a Christian Atheist debate, and I’m having a Monogamy, Polygamy debate and I listen in on a transgender, cis (which I forgot the meaning of again) debate.

Yesterday at 9:08am · Unlike · 1

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Paul Barrow You’ve really hit the nail on the head, Janet Ivey-Duensing. It’s a level of maturity, a willingness to contribute to the success of a relationship and knowing that it takes effort.

Yesterday at 9:11am · Like

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Marcia Everett We’ve come a long way baby. At least many of us speak up when we don’t like how we’re being treated. The next wave of people speaking up are the transgendered, the polygamist and the atheists, and in this country it will be the atheist having the hardest time finding a friend. Too many people feel that if they don’t agree with something, then that is how the law should be written (drawing back on this conversation think about the women’s suffrage movement and era) It’s very much an issue of HEARING, how you hear criticism (sometimes it doesn’t always come out well)

Yesterday at 9:15am · Unlike · 1

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Marcia Everett BTW I would like to do a survey monkey on Guns. da da da daaaaa.

Yesterday at 9:16am · Unlike · 1

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Paul Barrow Janet Ivey-Duensing‘s comment has disappeared. I hope that doesn’t mean second thoughts. Janet, what happened?

Yesterday at 9:20am · Like

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Paul Barrow There are a lot of surveys that need to be done, for sure, Marcia. If we had direct democracy, we’d have a much truer picture of real politics, but we might not like it either.

Yesterday at 9:22am · Like

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Bunny Munene I think there are a lot of relevant scholarly studies on this subject that you should read before launching into a survey. And I am wondering why the interest in the subject. Usually adults learn through dilemma and stress so I am thinking it’s a personal problem behind this. and if the tenor of this thread is any indication of your knowledge of women you have a long way to go Paul. 

Yesterday at 9:41am · Unlike · 4

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Paul Barrow Well, thanks for your observation, Bunny Munene. Actually, the issue was raised through a friend who has issues. As to my knowledge of women, I welcome your enlightening me. Actually I have been very disturbed by the attitudes I see in men toward women and have just observed a conversation on another page with a man who wouldn’t give a vagina a job, because that’s all women are.

Yesterday at 9:48am · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow And i think it’s unfortunate that the only way we can learn in our society is through dilemma and stress, Bunny Munene. That’s a breakdown in our culture, because we lack processes and methods of evolving maturity in constructive ways. Diversity of values is great in many respects, but it has a huge toll as well.

Yesterday at 9:52am · Like · 1

Nalidy Nido I am talking from Gaza/ Palestine. at our society before few years women were imposed to bear all the workload at her house. even before marriage. a wife or daughter used to be imposed on serving. nowadays for some fathers noticed that females are more willing to get any occupation or job they (the parents ) began sending their daughters to universities then after graduation the females are expected to get any good occupation (at unrwa or the government institutions). those fathers who choosed to send their daughters to uni after they (daughters) get the job they are prevented to marry and they are sent (the very fast majority) only to help their fathers in earning money beside helping their moms at home. ! this was happening till the previous 2/3 years. now what’s happening is that fathers allow their daughters to get married but they refuse for their sons to marry but a female that have an occupation. in gaza as arabs males chooses the girls who suits them and fathers only decide wether to accept the proposal or not. fore always you will hear from any male ” I need a woman who have an occupation” and the women who dont have marry with a huge difficulty. women who you may find too ugly recieve much more proposals than a beauty queen that doesn’t work. femals at gaza after marriage work as servants at homes. nanny for their babies.(note that females don’t have the right to negotiate about the number of children she has to give birth too.. males sometimes marry the second wife in order to have more children if their wifes fall sick or became tired. females go to work and imposed to give their wages or any money they earn for their husbands. )

Yesterday at 9:56am · Unlike · 1

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Nalidy Nido  listen islam is the opposite of what’s happening. in the Islamic religion women are allowed to learn to work but not imposed to serve or even to take care of children. males who are imposed to bring food and clotbes for the wife and to give her some money to spend on what she likes. marrying a second wife isonly allowed for males whom their wife cant make love for. healthy reasons.

Yesterday at 10:03am · Unlike · 1

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Paul Gottschalk Men, as a group, are no better, no worse, not even DIFFERENT when it comes to the things that make Us human, when compared with women. Yes, we have different genitalia, and isn’t that fun – but ultimately unimportant.
And neither men nor women are more nor less responsible for problems in relationships with other people – independent of which gender they’re having a relationship with.

Yesterday at 10:14am · Edited · Unlike · 1

Bunny Munene I didn’t say dilemma and stress is the “only” way Paul but it is an established fact that when you are fostering critical analysis in adults the use of dilemma and stress is a natural function. For example if you had a heart attack or someone you know has cancer, you will search out information about that subject because it directly affects you. A “teachable moment” is what most educators look for to garner interest in a subject and expand it. When it comes to the dynamics of interpersonal relationships It is truly a man’s world and for a woman to navigate through it she has to learn how men think but men usually do not have to do that. Often people do not know the dynamics of their relationships or what cultural or religious norms they are built on and that poses a another problem in itself.

Yesterday at 10:35am · Unlike · 3

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Nalidy Nido you know for me I find mingling the expected social role is the best. both should share every thing . I trust this way of living . with finding out a logic financial relationship that makes both males and females satisfied.

Yesterday at 10:39am · Unlike · 2

  • Paul Barrow I agree, Bunny, that it’s a patriarchy in the larger society as a whole, but when it comes to interpersonal relationships, this is very often not the case. A lot of women rule the household, and its a negotiated tradeoff in more successful relationships because men realize that they have the upper hand in the workplace. However, women have the bully horn right now on that subject, and they have men backing into a corner, at least psychologically, so the power of patriarchy is reduced proportionately. But I don’t agree that men don’t have to learn how women think. The divorce rate and the single mom situation tells us that there are a lot of men out there who are crying in their beer because they don’t have the productive meaningful relationship that they like, simply don’t understand women and wish that they did. I hear it.

    Yesterday at 10:47am · Like

  • Paul Barrow That’s what Janet Ivey-Duensing said in so many words earlier,Nalidy Nido. If either one in the relationship doesn’t carry his or her load and give willingly, even though it might seem like more than the other gives, then it becomes this “why don’t you get off your ass and do something, you bum. Why do I have to do everything?” and the relationship is on the rocks. We must give because that engenders love, and love begats (I like that Biblical word) a desire to give back. If everything has to be negotiated, then you might as well talk about an employment contract, how much your service is worth in dollars and cents, and forget the rest.

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Paul Gottschalk To even begin to try to solve the problem by men “trying to understand how women think” is as wrong at its core as White people “trying to understand how Black people think.”

Yesterday at 11:02am · Unlike · 1

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Paul Barrow Traditions have been diminished in our society, Paul Gottschalk, which usually takes the place of having to understand how people think. Traditions are a code of conduct that is widely accepted. New ways of thinking are not wrong, but if you destroy the house without having built a replacement, you’re homeless. We have a multitude of attitudes regarding relationship structure that have emerged in multicultural America, and Nalidy’s comment about relationships in Islam and Gaza makes that very clear. We need to be very careful about tearing them apart or attacking them because they differ from our own, however seemingly unjust they might be in respect to male or female. And there might be a hundred studies out there that tell us these problems, Bunny, but I find such discussion enormously useful in helping us all deal with them.

Yesterday at 11:26am · Like

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Paul Gottschalk No, we do not have to be “culturally sensitive” when it comes to how we react to something wrong that has cultural approval, even cultural support.
Imagine going into a community that still thinks slavery is okay. No, we don’t have to make sure we don’t “disrespect their culture” by saying clearly that what they’re doing is wrong.

Yesterday at 11:28am · Like

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Paul Gottschalk Sometimes, it’s not about tearing down a house (which implies it’s doing something Good). It’s about removing a POISON.

Yesterday at 11:30am · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow As long as you are free to hit and run, you can say that, Paul. The people’s lives you are messing with are not so free. I’m just saying that we need to use good judgment. One of the things that you see in certain parts of Pakistan is the acid in the face thing because some woman was raped. Yes, there are inhumane things that occur that we should all vehemently oppose.

Yesterday at 11:37am · Like

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Paul Gottschalk I believe that truth shouldn’t be hidden just because some people aren’t ready to deal with it.
When I’m talking with a man and a woman, and the man has the belief that I should only be addressing him, and ignoring his wife like she isn’t there, I don’t let HIS vision of what is right dominate, just because I’m in what HE thinks is HIS neck o’ the woods.

23 hours ago · Like

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Paul Gottschalk We shouldn’t just oppose things that are wrong on the scale of acid thrown in a woman’s face. But ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that is wrong. As in, “Excuse me, but I couldn’t help noticing that this [Black] woman was waiting here before this other [White] woman walked in. And I notice that this [Black} woman seems like she feels disrespected. So perhaps you wouldn’t mind waiting on ALL of Us in the order we came in? Thank you so much.”
As OPPOSED to thinking to MYSELF, “Well, I AM in Mississippi, so I suppose I should respect their CULTURE here.”

23 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow It’s THEIR vision that’s important, Paul.

23 hours ago · Like

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Paul Gottschalk No, it is NOT, Paul.
What is RIGHT, what is MORAL, what is Good, is what is important.

23 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow The tyranny of Good. That’s an interesting paradox.

23 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow American exceptionalism takes that stance.

23 hours ago · Like

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Paul Gottschalk I’ll pass over the fact that was unfair, and just stick with the facts, that your response was just as invalid as attempting to diminish the value of my perspective as being due to the thinning hair on my head.

23 hours ago · Edited · Like

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Paul Gottschalk The “tyranny of Good”? That’s like someone talking about the power of love and respect, and you calling that “tyranny.”
But, yes, Good does TRUMP everything else. If you don’t know that, the problem isn’t with the actual importance of Good, but rather with your lack of sufficient commitment to it.
Sure didn’t think I’d have to be defending Good itself with you – as though “cultural sensitivity” is more important than Good itself….
Go take a nap, Paul: you’re usually MUCH better than this.
Or maybe you just dislike EMOTIONALLY that I’m raining on your parade of “Yes, we men are SO inferior to you higher-developed females, so I’m just doing a survey to discover all the ways our inferiority MANIFESTS itself.”
Because it FEELS like you’re PANDERING to women, which isn’t respectful to women any more than it is to men.

23 hours ago · Edited · Like

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Paul Barrow Ha, ha, ha. good one, Paul.

23 hours ago · Like

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Anna Maliere Who cooks? Seriously? I’m of the millennial generation, married for 4 years, we are both 26 and we both love to cook and find it fun, sometimes I hold the door for him, sometimes he does for me, we both have jobs that we try to find a way to do creatively. We play music together, we both clean equally and both hate doing the dishes equally but we do all that, we both go out equally there’s not even a question Of equality, we both don’t want children right now but if we do he is excited about taking time off to take care of them. I’m a feminist and humanist and so is he.

23 hours ago · Like · 4

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Paul Barrow I do have to go check on my car. It was flooded last night in the parking lot from flashflooding and a huge deluge of rain. I can see what’s going to happen when i open the doors. Anna Maliere, beautiful comment.

23 hours ago · Like · 2

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Paul Gottschalk Good luck with your car, my wonderful brother. Much love to you.

23 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 1

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Bunny Munene there are so many different types of relationships and the ability to sit down and discuss how the household will run is a hallmark of good communication skills and compromise.

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Paul Barrow A friend of mine, who has some celebrity status and does not want to post publicly shared this with me privately:
Because truly Paul, love for me isn’t the grand gestures, it’s the make coffee and bring me my first cup in bed, it’s getting it on with your hubby, when you’d rather eat chocolate and wear flannel. People have lost all ability to be ‘another’ focused. If everyone is always into……what’s in it for me?” then why want or try relationships. We have to sail away from the shores of what happened to us as kids and teens and adults, love our own selves to health and then partner with a person that allows us to be, grow and evolve. I have seen time and time again, the girl fall in love with the musician or artist, only to want them to truly be an accountant and bring home the bacon.
There are double standards on both sides. I’ve known husbands who love their wives and think it’s entirely fine to have a play thing on the side. Usually these are men who are afraid of losing pace with their youth and desperately looking for that elusive…’excitement.’ Women do it too, and to me the argument for westerners is…can i imagine growing old, and smelling and taking care and doing a sundry of un fun things when the time comes because I made a life with you and there was much joy and laughter? Love isn’t movie magic…yes it can be and there are moments of bliss that cannot be put into words, but love is also action, and that means putting your ego on the shelf, daring to make another person important, in spite of what your heart longs to do, and then reaping the benefits of love unconditional in those acts. I’m not perfect, neither is my husband and we have considered throwing in the towel a few times, but in the end, we realize we are better together. And if we weren’t we’d both be adult enough to walk away.
Women should never be used as slave labor or a sex slave or made to feel less than. It bothers me immensely what happens to women globally all in the name of some deity. Genital Mutilation, Child Brides, Rape, Sex Slaves, it’s all savage to me. And the men who look at , perform heinous acts and think they are righteous because of the way they degrade women are nothing to me, they are not men.
What makes a man a real man, is when you will strip down to a shirt and shorts, (after you are completely dressed and ready to go the wedding) to change the tire of our next door neighbor. A real man admits when he’s been a dumbass and asks for forgiveness. Yes I like chivalry, and a guy who can check the air pressure in my tires and yes maybe I should be able to do that as a woman, but I don’t really want to. And a real woman loves and loves and adores and adores and doesn’t use sex as a weapon or hold her husband hostage and keep it from him.
It comes down to the golden rule. You want to be treated well? Be respected? Adored? Admired? Loved? Taken Care of? Then do it to the person standing right in front of you. Drop the ego.
And if you are being abused in any shape form or fashion then you have chosen wrongly and get the hell out.

19 hours ago · Like · 1

19 hours ago · Like · 1

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Kelli Arena Paul, if you are looking for one size fits all answers–they will not come. Every relationship is unique. Any long term relationship will continue to morph just as the people in it continue to change. This is why communication is so important. Expectations are based on so many factors. We will not have our needs met if we don’t express them. I remember an old story about a husband who always gave his wife the heel of the bread. She suffered silently for years until she finally told her husband she couldn’t believe he always ate the best part of the bread and left the heel for her. His reply? I was saving the best for you–the heel is my favorite part. Even if we know someone for years, we can never guess at their motivation for doing or not doing certain things. We must always keep the lines of communication open.

19 hours ago · Unlike · 2

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Paul Barrow I’m interested in developing a survey, Kelli, so it is less about what I want and more about understanding the shape of attitudes and what the expectations of men are. There are so many attitudes flying around about what men are all about, that I felt that it would be a good idea to try to identify through a survey what men really think. I’m not sure at all that this will have any scientific strength in measuring men, but I will try to form questions that address many of the issues that have been raised in this thread.

19 hours ago · Edited · Like

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Anna Maliere Paul, i truly don’t think though, that you can assume all men want the same things. And that women want the same things from men. No two men are exactly the same.

19 hours ago · Unlike · 1

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Paul Barrow The survey will identify what men want, and I agree that they won’t all be lumped together. I’m really very interested in how the results will turn out, because I want to know what men expect in a relationship. They certainly won’t all expect the same thing, but we might be surprised by what they do expect.

19 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow The purpose of this thread is to try to gain insight into the type of questions to ask.

19 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow I tagged all women because I want their opinions about what bothers them and what makes them happy in a relationship. Women are the best source for identifying questions that focus on a man’s ability to be successful in a relationship.

19 hours ago · Like

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Paul Gottschalk Wow, not content to sprinkle a little manure on our plate, you left and came back with a TRUCKLOAD of it to dump on the entire KITCHEN.
WOMEN – you (claim to) THINK – are the best source for identifying questions that focus on a MAN’s ability?
Do you REGULARLY make a HABIT of pandering to women so shamelessly, Paul, and I just never noticed it before?
And before any women it’s WORKING on have a chance to reply, allow me to encourage you to PAUSE and consider THIS statement for the EQUAL – no less, no more – manure IT would be:
“Men are the best source for identifying questions that focus on a woman’s ability to be successful in a relationship.”
Anyone STUPID enough to make THAT statement around any intelligent and strong women, may I suggest that you give yourself a head start and already be running away as fast as you can when you say it?

18 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1

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Jean-Marie Lacobee What makes a man uncomfortable in the initial commitment stage of a relationship?

17 hours ago · Like

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Elizabeth Kaplan What Paul said

16 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow Paul Gottschalk, all you’ve said is that what I’ve said is a bunch of shit, and that I”m pandering to women. That’s not an argument against what I’ve said. Haven’t you got anything better than that?

16 hours ago · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow The best judge of whether an artist is good is his audience.

16 hours ago · Like · 1

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Betty Molchany Paul G. seems compelled to act out every day, I suppose, because he is unable to do so with his clients. He is very angry and hostile continuously.

16 hours ago · Edited · Like

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Paul Barrow Jean-Marie Lacobee, your question needs some clarification. There’s an obvious answer, that a relationship for life, or until lack of money do us part, is one of the most important decisions anyone makes, and having reservations would be natural. I’m not sure if you are probing for something else.

15 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow Elizabeth Kaplan says on a post she tagged me in, “But I do think you are single-handedly extending the war between the sexes by trying to codify relationships with a survey, when everybody seems to realize it depends on the people, their backgrounds, baggage, culture, etc.”

14 hours ago · Like · 2

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Elizabeth Kaplan I also said:
For example, I have no idea what you mean by “a real man.”. Letty Cotin Pogrebin, powerful feminist from the ’80s who took on this question with regard to child rearing and said, ” To be male is masculine; to be female is feminine. Everything else is propaganda.” And I have seen over the past 3 decades that she was right.

13 hours ago · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow I’m looking for the reference, E. Maybe you can point it out.

13 hours ago · Like

3 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow the only reference I see to “real man” in my comments was not actually my comment. If you look at the introductory remark, “A friend of mine, who has some celebrity status and does not want to post publicly shared this with me privately:” We all have our opinions of what real men are, and I find nothing wrong with that. However, I would certainly use that expression much more guardedly, because it is entirely subjective.

13 hours ago · Like · 1

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Paul Barrow I also do not believe that a survey would in any way codify relationships. It’s merely an examination of behavioral attitudes, which can then be used to interpret relationships to some degree, and why some work and some don’t. You’ll have to explain that point.

13 hours ago · Like

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Paul Barrow there seems to be a lot of criticism on the left toward cultural expressions, as though, because it does not have some scientifically objective basis in biological truth, that it is therefore illegitimate. it tends to be a rejection of anything that labels, or establishes an identity, because it makes one vulnerable, perhaps. Having male and female roles distinct from one another seems to be the primary target. There is a distinct movement afoot to abolish all trappings of gender, and i think that’s not only silly and a waste of good intellectual resources, it defies history and the inevitable tendencies of human nature. it does codify relationships, and I think that’s a good thing.

13 hours ago · Like

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Paul Gottschalk Paul, do you know how a professionally educated, trained and licensed counselor (psychotherapist) – especially an experienced one – works with same sex couples?
EXACTLY the same as they do with heterosexual couples, because the PROBLEMS in RELATIONSHIP are EXACTLY THE SAME.
Because problems in RELATIONSHIP have NOTHING to do with GENDER.

2 hrs · Edited · Like · 2

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Paul Gottschalk Your survey is INVALID from its CONCEPTUALIZATION.
You’re trying to build a house, but you start off by saying, “But I’m only going to use sand for the foundation.”

Paul Barrow I’m primarily addressing the issues between men and women in heterosexual relationships, and that’s how my survey will be structured.

3 mins · Like

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